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Published 25-11-2007 11:56 by RacingOne.com

Fixing NASCAR: Top 35 Rule

Those who believe NASCAR caters more to sponsors and its business partners rather than the fans need to look no further than the controversial Top 35 rule, which was implemented last season.

Drivers who held a spot within the first 35 of the NEXTEL Cup Series standings are granted an automatic starting spot in that week's race, regardless of where they qualified in the weekend's time trial session.

With sometimes more than 50 teams showing up on a weekly basis, NASCAR decided to try and protect sponsors who supported teams on a full-time basis by guaranteeing those drivers a starting position.

The move destroyed the old spirit the sport was built upon when if a driver showed up with a car that was fast enough in qualifying, he could race on Sunday.

The Top 35 rule created numerous embarrassing scenarios last season when several cars made fields despite being drastically slower in qualifying than drivers who were sent home simply because of where they stood in the series standings.

It also put several of the now-dubbed "go or go home" teams at a disadvantage when they were forced to qualify earlier or later in the sessions and confront changing conditions that effected speeds.

NASCAR will reportedly change that in 2008, allowing all the teams outside the Top 35 to qualify in one group.

But the rule itself looks like it's here to stay and has caused many long-time fans to become outraged.

"NASCAR is all about dollars and cents and not about the actual competition," one fan wrote. "This rule brings NASCAR closer to Formula One-type policies with the mega rich teams being protected, virtually eliminating any small or low-budget operations from competing."

What do you think about the Top 35 rule?

Comments

BillyTKidd said:
Funny. NASCAR is supposed to be about the fans  but the top 35 rule is one of the most disliked by fans. I do understand the need for some guaranteed starting positions, but guaranteeing 81% is too much. And, although it is supposed to protect sponsors, it often has the reverse effect. NAPA, UPS, Cat and Sprint are prime examples NASCAR needs to decide if it is going to franchise it's teams like F1 or not. The top 35 rule is akin to having your cake and eating it too. On the surface, NASCAR appears to be an old school racing league where if anyone brings a car fast enough to qualify, they can race. In reality though, it is almost impossible. One part of the rule I would like to see amended is that if a car must post a qualifying time to race. Simply put, cars that fail post qualifying inspection do not start.
November 26, 2007 3:45 AM
gsmithmme said:
The Top 35 rule is nothing more than race fixing. NASCAR is determining what teams will not win the race and guaranteeing that one of 35 teams WILL win the race. It is by far the most disrespectful rule to the fans that NASCAR has created. I certainly understand the reason why it was created, but the days of field fillers is gone, and with 49-52 quality teams showing up each week, the rule is patently unfair.

What is more appalling is the arrogance of series director Darby and his absolute refusal to listen to anyone... fans, drivers, sponsors are all told that "there will be absolutely no change", no matter how loud the cry grows.

It's time for fans to just stop watching and stop going to the race until NASCAR at least listens to the very people that support it. Perhaps if UPS tells NASCAR that they are considering leaving the series unless a change is made, then maybe Darby, Mr. Helton and Mr. France will finally listen.
November 26, 2007 10:37 AM
NASCAR_Scott said:
The top 35 rule is just fine.  If you want to let them qualify at the same time, so be it.    
November 26, 2007 4:18 PM
dalejrfanfreak said:
Even though I like the idea that my driver will be racing that weekend no matter what, I have to say that I enjoy the do or die mentality of NHRA's qualifying setup. In NHRA the fastest race, and if that means John Force doesn't race then he doesn't race. Qualifying is supposed to be about who's fast enough to race. In my opinion the rule hurts those outside the top 35 twice. Once because it makes it much harder to get into the field, and twice because if it's harder to get into the field then it's harder to get points to get in the top 35. It makes it so much harder for those teams to even get into a race.

In my opinion NASCAR should either go back the way it was or say if you aren't fast enough you aren't racing. Plus, I don't see how they are going to let all of those not in the top 35 qualify at the same time. How in the world will it be fair if they have to go out on the track when it's the hottest of the day? Or, what happens if they go out when the track is the coolest and they get the big advantage? Qualifying shouldn't be this complicated.
November 26, 2007 6:41 PM
24HendrickMotorsports48 said:
I definately see both sides of the story, however...On one hand NASCAR in its never ending quest to expand to each and every market feels the top 35 rule is necessary to keep the "house-hold" name sponsors on board for the long term.  I personally think the rule is WRONG!  First and foremost we are talking about RACING.  If you are not fast enough, load your stuff up and try again next week.  I would even meet NASCAR in the middle and and say the top 12 or whatever number they come up with next week for how many will be in the chase is guaranteed a starting spot and the rest are obligated to make it on time.
November 26, 2007 8:50 PM
socalijeff said:
I am NOT a fan of the top 35 rule in Cup and wish it was pure qualifying plain and simple.  50 cars show up and top 43 make the race.  Though I know that will never be done.  I would prefer that NASCAR would go back to how it was in 2004, which was the top 38 on speed, in qualifying, made the race and then there were 5 spots left over for provisionals.  Also I wish that before a reporter like Pete Pistone would get his facts straight before he writes even a simple little article like this one.  Here's what I mean: "Those who believe NASCAR caters more to sponsors and its business partners rather than the fans need to look no further than the controversial Top 35 rule, which was implemented last season."
This top 35 rule was implemented for the 2005 season, not last season.  Last season was the third season under this format.  Get your facts straight my man or watch your NASCAR a tad closer and you might know what's going on in the sport.  I don't dislike your writing, I just like accuracy.  
November 27, 2007 4:05 AM
most said:
ok< I blogged abou tthis last week, here is a list of how the DNQ's would look under a fastest 43 format vs. the top 35 rule.  This is just during the Chase races:

Actual   Under fastest format
Ward Burton 7  0
Kevin Lepage 6  3
Sam Hornish 6  2
Michael Waltrip 5  1
John Andretti 5  2
AJ Allmendinger 4  0
Burney Lamar 4  2
Jeremy Mayfield 4  4
Dale Jarrett 3  2
David Reutimann 3  1
Joe Nemechek 3  0
Brian Vickers 3  2
Todd Bodine 1  1
Mike Skinner 1  0
Carl Long 1  1
Kirk Schelmerdine 1  1
Boris Said 1  0
Scott Riggs 1  0
Sterling Marlin 1  0
Jon Wood 1  0
Scott Wimmer 1  0
Dave Blaney 1  0
Mark Martin!!!! 0  1
Clint Bowyer!!! 0  1
Kyle Petty 0  4
Robby Gordon 0  4
Bill Elliott 0  3
Tony Raines 0  5
David Ragan 0  1
David Gilliland 0  1
Johnny Sauter 0  2
Ricky Rudd 0  1
David Stremme 0  2
Jeff Gordon!!!!!!! 0  1
Jamie McMurray 0  1
Kyle Busch!!!! 0  1
Kevin Harvick!!!! 0  1
Aric Almirola 0  1
Ken Schrader 0  1
Kenny Wallace 0  2

Iam sure there would need to be a provisional for the Chase drivers, maybe lock in the top 15 DRIVERS, not OWNERS weekly so that we don't lose a Jimmie Johnson in the Chase because an oil line breaks in Qualifying.  Especially during the Chase, those guys would get a provisional but otherwise I don't see why we don't do it the fastest 43 way!  I like Tony Raines and I know the 96 team is new and has a sponsor to answer to, but they didn't earn their way into half of the last 10 races, whereas Ward Burton would have made all 9 he entered instead of missing 7 of them!  DLP wants their car in the show but why screw State Water Heaters, a small sponsor who still supports the sinking ship of NA$CAR!

Maybe these teams getting screwed by the top 35 could just go Nationwide, oh wait, no chance to compete there either!  Thanks to Childress, Roush and Gibbs for ruining that series!!!!!

It is a sinking ship and someone needs to realize that, Champ Car used to be big, bad decision making, look at it now.....
November 27, 2007 8:57 AM
NASCAR_Scott said:
I love the people that say they hate the top 35 rule and then go on about how it should be the fastest qualifiers make the race.  Then somewhere in their statement they slip in the word "provisional" for some drivers.  You can't have it both ways.  Furthermore, qualifying fast and being good on race day are two different things.  So don't think the "fastest 43" on qualifying equals a great race.
November 27, 2007 12:39 PM
Roofflap said:
Unfortunately you are correct, the fastest 43 might not make the best race, but how else should you qualify for a race? Genius.

I know. Let's take the Top 35 richest SOBs and put them in the race. That seems to be working out great. Villeneuve, Franchitti, Hornish Jr., and Carpentier are the cream of the crop. I can just envision the great racing to come in 2008.

Better yet, let's take the slowest 35 cars. Make the Top 10 in points qualify against each other to get in the race. I kinda like that idea.
November 27, 2007 3:15 PM
NASCAR_Scott said:
Well Roofflap, I guess you didn't read my first post.  Thanks, but no thanks for the compliment.  I already know I'm a genius.  
November 27, 2007 4:18 PM
most said:
Apparently we can't have opinions on this board!  Is NASCAR_Scott really Jack Roush?

I just think something needs to change, I love the NHRA because John Force has to actually qualify for every event, no I am a 16 time champion provisional, if he isn't fast enough, he's out.  

No wonder the NHRA is better though.  They are doing things NA$CAR would pay trillions to do, great fan base, good TV coverage, an african american driver who can win, a woman who can win, an african american woman who can win, a hillbilly who can win, a billionaire who can win!!!  I mean, they are just awesome and people want to watch it!
November 27, 2007 7:13 PM
racinghcr said:
Nascar's "RULES CONTROLLED SHOWS" are never more evident with rules dictates from the Billionaire BOSSES of Nascar that fix the fields at 35 richest and a handful of peasants. This is NOT TRUE COMPETITION any more than the stupid "Lucky Dog" gimmick,or the bogus "Debris Cautions",or  questionable Speeding in the pits penalties! Too many questionable rules and too many Nascar "Police" in the pits. I counted almost a hundred Nascar "Pit Police" during a caution period at Charlotte last month?!!(2 per car=86+several others "policing the pits!? This is NOT what REAL Racing is all about period. TOO MANY RULES-Too MANY BOSSES and NOT ENOUGH REAL RACING! MOST passes should be on the track under GREEN FLAG conditions-not during the bogus,orchestrated pit parades called by the  Nascar "Bosses in the BOX". Nascar's GREEDY Bosses have killed TRUE COMPETITION ,driving away fans ,and are either the aloof ,stupid or both to see it!!
November 28, 2007 1:19 AM
NASCAR_Scott said:
When I watch a race I want to see the best teams and the best drivers in that race.  Let's be real about things, some teams suck.  I don't care if they make the race or not.  I want to see Stewart, Johnson, Dale Jr., Kenseth, Gordan, Harvick, Newman, ect..  The go or go homers, I know it's an uphill battle to get into the top 35, but if you have a good enough team make it happen.  Sorry, but I don't want to see Kevin Lepage over Jeff Burton, if it's the "fastest 43" qualifiers and Burton smacks the wall off of turn 4 and his time is only good enough for 46th spot.
November 28, 2007 8:57 AM
Roofflap said:
If Jeff Burton "smacks the wall off of turn 4", then who sucks? I know. Jeff Burton.

NASCAR is an organization that has sold out to the highest bidder and that is forcing drivers to compete under questionable and mysterious rules. It's a spectacle and a joke at this point.

I agree with "most". NHRA is gaining fans and NASCAR is losing fans. Next year will be the first year that I will not go to a NASCAR event, but will go to an NHRA event. The "old" NASCAR fans have found a new home where the slow cars go home, regardless. There is no lucky dog or debris caution at convenient times for the favorite drivers, either. Beautiful.

November 28, 2007 5:26 PM
NASCAR_Scott said:
Good comeback.  You got me.  Jeff Burton sucks.  Comparing NASCAR to the NHRA is like comparing speed boat racing to the America's cup or whatever it's called with the sailboats.  They both use boats and compete on water so I guess they're the same.  NASCAR and the NHRA both use a "car" and compete on asphalt, so I guess they are the same.  Wrong, they are not the same.  They are completely different animals with different rules and formats.  I'm not really a fan of the NHRA it not really my cup of tea, but I'm not going to knock it.  I don't agree with everything NASCAR does, but it is what it is.    
November 28, 2007 5:54 PM
dalejrfanfreak said:
NASCAR_Scott I can compare NHRA with NASCAR all I want because unlike NASCAR the NHRA doesn't have idiotic rules that hurt its sport. NHRA's qualifying rules are raw, if you aren't fast enough you don't race, period. Why do we call it qualifying if you don't even have to be fast to get in the race? I go to NHRA and NASCAR events throughout the year and in terms of the fan experience I have to say that NHRA is more enjoyable. There's no idiotic field freezing, no half way point, no cheating, and best of that sport actually makes you feel like they care you are at the track! The top 35 rule is a joke and if you don't believe that statement then ask RacingOne why they think it needs to be fixed, or better yet the countless race fans that agree. I don't care if it's Dale Jr missing a race, if you aren't fast enough to get in the field you DO NOT BELONG THERE.
November 28, 2007 8:03 PM
BillyTKidd said:
To quote the Earl of Sandwich from the Time Squad episode. The top 35 rule is a "Stinky pile of poo."
November 29, 2007 7:52 AM
NASCAR_Scott said:
True enough dalejrfanfreak, you can compare the NHRA to NASCAR.  Heck you can compare it to RC racing, baby crawling racing, on an episode of the Brady Bunch, Peter had a frog that he entered into a frog jumping compition, you can even compare it to that if you want.  But unless you can explain how they are similar to begin with, then that argument doesn't hold water.    
November 29, 2007 8:15 AM
dalejrfanfreak said:
NASCAR_Scott, sorry I was a tad harsh/angry towards you but here's why I think NHRA and NASCAR can be compared. First off, they are both motorsports as you know and in my opinion they both have a lot in common. It's not like I am comparing NASCAR with Hockey, and as I said I've been to both many times and I think one can learn from the other. NHRA has a lot of elements that make the sport a lot of fun, and I can't think off the top of my head of any rules that hurt the sport of NHRA which is something I can't say about NASCAR.
November 30, 2007 1:00 AM
NASCAR_Scott said:
It's all good dalejrfanfreak.  Discussing topics that we're passionate about, sometime it will gets that way.  
November 30, 2007 8:41 AM
racinfan said:
How else are they going to give away 24 mil at their BS banquet in NYC which probably should be held in Atlanta or Charlotte.
It also seems rather odd that this "fan friendly" sport is double the price of any of the other raing series. At least the price stamped on my tickets for the Cup race is more than the double for the same seat at the same venue for the Busch or IRL races.
December 2, 2007 10:35 AM
TF330FAN said:
NHRA is gaining fans and doesn't have idiotic rules that hurt the sport? You're kidding me, right? Good TV coverage....yeah right. Maybe some of you should read some NHRA message boards and see what people think. I attend IRL, NASCAR and NHRA shows. NHRA is by far the most fan friendly with access to the drivers in the pits. I have decided to cut back on going to NHRA and NASCAR races. I will no longer attend a "Chase" race or a "Countdown" race. NHRA's Countdown is far more idiotic than NASCAR's Chase. The Top 35 rule pigeon holes those out of the top 35. When top 35 cars can set up for the race and the rest have to set up for qualifying, those who do make the race are at an extreme dissadvantage once the race starts...especially at impound races. Something is wrong when you can have a top 15 car in speed but still have to pack up after qualifying as happened this year.
December 2, 2007 10:53 PM
dalejrfanfreak said:
Racinfan, NASCAR is not double the price of other sports. NHRA is very close in terms of price. Secondly, NASCAR is popular enough to sell tickets at that price, if IRL was anymore expensive people probably wouldn't show since that sport is in shams (proof: open wheel guys going NASCAR). I'm a college student and I could afford a weekend ticket to Atlanta, Lowes, and I also made it to two Talladega events. It's a lot of money but not unaffordable.


TF330FAN, the only rule that hurts NHRA is possibly their playoff system. I support such a system just not resetting the points as many times as they did, I think once is enough. Secondly, the tv coverage is great for NHRA it's not just live nor is it on at the best time, but that is not exactly the fault of NHRA, you don't have the sport saying they want to be on at that time like NASCAR says they won't start a race until 2pm ET or later.  The commentators are enthusiastic, the drivers are very enthusiastic, and you never miss anything because it's taped so what else is there to address other than the time it comes on? Unfortunately for the NHRA it is difficult to do a live show and keep a lot of people watching. What are you going to do between rounds? Or better yet, do you think that NHRA deserves to be on t.v. for 4-6 hours? No way. I'm not going to sit on my butt all day Sunday to watch 4 rounds of drag racing, plus it's horrible for t.v. when you have a half hour oil down.

Anyways, I can't think of any rules besides the playoff system that could hurt NHRA. You don't have field freezing, you gotta qualify on time, you don't have cautions that are hit or miss, and you can't call the races after half way if it rains. NHRA has a ton going for it and NASCAR needs to evaluate how that sport is run to see where they can improve in my opinion.

December 3, 2007 1:58 PM
TF330FAN said:
The NHRA has to buy it's TV time from ESPN and is therefore treated like the proverbial red-headed step child. How many people do you think stay up until 1AM Eastern time to watch a race? This happened several times this year. How many qualifying and elimination shows were cut short after being run over by a live event....several. I agree that live TV would never work but it should come on at a decent time and be on time most of the time. My wife and I went to Baytown, as always, this year. We left after the semi's were run due to her back pain. It's a seven hour drive and we got home just in time to see the finals on TV (a little past midnight central time). Paul Page is getting better but he should have stayed with IRL. Most picked apart every telecast when he first started, some still do. Unfortunately, there will never be another Steve Evans or Dave MaClelland. Their new points system has killed it for many of us. Most polls I've seen are between 80 and 90 percent against.
December 3, 2007 10:39 PM
sean said:
Lock in the teams in the previous year's chase, and no one else.  Voila.  I know that is institutionalizing the chase, but making the chase is (more or less) a valid indicator of the strength of the team, and will generally lock your superstars in.  It's also closer to fastest 43 than either the horrendous top 35 rule or the old provisional system, because in the old provisional system, five drivers got provisionals...but it would be an extremely rare occurrence that five of the previous year's top 12 would all need a provisional, so you'd get more fast qualifiers among the weaker teams than even in the classic system...  

I'm fine with the top 12 being locked in, but for those two Yates cars to be locked in all season is a freakin' joke, considering how bad they were in the races (and how the Red Bull #83 when it made races did better than the two Yates cars put together...)

NHRA is the example everyone uses for "fastest qualifiers only" but really racing series have been switching away from giving DNQs at all.  Back in the Indy 500 glory days, Al Unser Jr., Emerson Fittipaldi, and Bobby Rahal all missed the race...now Tony George needs to pad the field with his own entries, and accept marginal drivers like Milka Duno just to ensure there are enough cars in the field.  Same with Champ Car.  Nobody misses the race, so there's no chance that the stars could.  Nobody misses races in F1 anymore either although that used to be fairly common (Mario Andretti missed the Monaco Grand Prix once!)  So stars don't miss the races in any series except NHRA that I can think of.

Also, if you bring back second chance qualifying, you might not need to have any locked in spots at all, since people could recover from a Friday problem.

And what's with the lucky dog bashing?  Sure it's contrived, but it's far less contrived than the "gentlemen's agreement" that preceded it, where drivers would slam on the brakes letting 10 or 15 cars get a lap back fairly regularly just to let a teammate back on the lead lap (Jeff Burton did it for Mark Martin in '97 at Michigan, and Jerry Nadeau did it for Jeff Gordon in '01 at Atlanta, where he lost the photo finish to Harvick).  It's a specific rule to determine who gets the lap back rather than a safety hazard where all sorts of drivers make crazy banzai moves to try and be in close enough contact with the leader...
December 7, 2007 12:28 AM
dalejrfanfreak said:
Sean, there's something you might be overlooking. Both CART and IRL can barely get enough cars to show up to have a full field, whereas NASCAR has about 8-10 cars that will not be in the show no matter what. Plus, there's only 22 F1 teams and only 22 spots so of course nobody goes home. NHRA's qualifying system is the fairest and it's how qualifying should be. Plus, making everyone qualify on time  makes the playing field even since at the impound races like Talladega you don't force people into qualifying trims vs racing trims. It is as if NASCAR is handing out 35 provisionals each race.

Secondly, I don't have a problem with the lucky dog rule however with 5 to go NASCAR absolutely must let the drivers race back to the line. It is an absolute shame for the winner of the race to be decided in turn 2, especially at places like Talladega where the finish always comes down to the wire, and even just the distance of the tri oval is enough for someone to make a pass for the win as we saw in the Busch race at Talladega this year. There's nothing that will make fans more angry than not knowing if their driver could of won the race in the last half a lap.
December 8, 2007 10:53 PM
Butters said:
If you are going to have a top 35, then there should be NO! Provisional’s.  Look at Dave Blaney, he worked his ass off to get into and stay in the top 35, while the Wood brothers were using Elliot’s provisionals to keep then selves close.  And what Penske is doing with Kurt Bush's provisional’s isn’t right.  Either top 35 and No provisional’s at all. Or go back to qualifying with maybe limited provisional’s (like 5) for those in the top 20.
December 13, 2007 3:03 PM
YUKON NICK said:
I agree the rule SUCKS and agree that the go or go home teams need help not the BIG BUCK operations. When we hear teams are racing to make the top 35 and not the win or even the top 20, it's depresing and a major handicap to the sport. So NASCAR get with this and remember the roots, not the great harvest of cash you are making. Even the dam field or start wondering what the futuer holds for you. Being a fan of NASCAR for 40 years I truly feel you are moving backwards not forward with the sport!
January 25, 2008 7:19 AM
RA_sing said:
hay if its all about sponcers let nascar try this using the top 35
1 place qualfier gets LOWE'S
2nd  Get Home depot
3rd Get Fed X
4th office depot
5th Dupont
6th Dewalt
7th Red bull
8th Budwiser
9th Coors
10th Cheerio"s
February 2, 2008 7:19 PM
RA_sing said:
let the sponcers hold there spot
1st Lowes
2nd dupont
3rd home depot etc on down the list the longest sponcer of nascar has the pole spot and thats what they sponcer and then the rest fall in were they 1st intro duced there self too nascar.RA
February 2, 2008 7:22 PM
FUNBUTTON410 said:
Corporate hype! and force feeding the issue. Nascar is losing it's touch! The more they force things the more they have to over sell TV time to try and keep there fans. The first 2 races have been flops! And the so called experts are not that smart! I've tried for the last 2 yrs to try and see what people see in napcar.  The WoO sprints are much more atractive these day's.
February 26, 2008 6:22 AM
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